Zinet Kemal is an infosec powerhouse. After emigrating from Ethiopia to Minnesota with her husband, she started her life over. She left behind her community and career as a lawyer and dived into the world of information security. She has since become a children’s book author and works as a cloud security engineer for Best Buy, while raising her four kids and completing her master’s degree in cybersecurity from Georgia Tech University. In the latest episode of WE’RE IN!, Zinet shares how she published two children’s books during the pandemic, “Proud in Her Hijab” and “Oh, No ... Hacked Again!: A Story About Online Safety,” and about her work with Black Girls in Cyber.
Zinet Kemal is an infosec powerhouse. After emigrating from Ethiopia to Minnesota with her husband, she started her life over. She left behind her community and career as a lawyer and dived into the world of information security.
She has since become a children’s book author and works as a cloud security engineer for Best Buy, while raising her four kids and completing her master’s degree in cybersecurity from Georgia Tech University.
In the latest episode of WE’RE IN!, Zinet shares how she published two children’s books during the pandemic, “Proud in Her Hijab” and “Oh, No ... Hacked Again!: A Story About Online Safety,” and about her work with Black Girls in Cyber.
Listen to the episode to hear more about:
* How you can teach kids (and grandparents) about cybersecurity
*Zinet’s journey from immigrant to best selling author
*The power of diversity in cybersecurity
Links:
[00:00:00]
Jeremiah: so thank you so much for joining the show today, Z net. Uh, we're super excited to have you here. wanted to ask the question around your transition from law, into cyber security.
What inspired you to make that move in the first.
Zinet: Yeah, thank you for having me on. I'm really excited to be here. Um, my name is Erica. I, um, I'm a mom of four and a wife and an author and, uh, um, a cybersecurity professional. Um, but to answer your question, so, um, you know, I'm moved, um, from Ethiopia to the us nine years ago, and like you mentioned, I was in the legal field.
Um, and, um, you know, moving here and just seeing the opportunity I've always wanted to be in Texas. So I joined a local community college, just, just my goal at that point was, you know, to study programming, which I have no background and to become a programmer, um, [00:01:00] or a developer, which, which, which, again, I don't have any idea, but just enrolled into that program.
Um, did my associate's degree in computer programming two years later. And then transition to a four year degree again, to do a computer science. Cause I still thinks didn't make sense, uh, lack of background background. Um, and then also, you know, other factors, you know, being situated in a, in a new continent, in a new country, uh, coming from Ethiopia and a different background.
Um, so last, um, year of my undergrad program doing my computer science program there, I discovered this, uh, competition, uh, cyber defense company. Uh, I joined that team. Um, ultimately, you know, like, um, uh, at the end of that up until then, I haven't had any exposure with cybersecurity or, you know, as a course, or as part of the program was just one elective course that we needed to take.
And then, you know, through that exposure, you know, that sparked my interest to work in cybersecurity field, [00:02:00] um, to answer shortly, but that was. That was the moment when I knew that, you know, like I should, and that's not long time ago. It was like in 20, um, in end of 26.
Jeremiah: So a lot of individuals would find that to be kind of a daunting change, what was the biggest change or most difficult part about that change?
Zinet: Yeah. Like I mentioned, you know, not having the background cause in law school, you don't get any math classes or nothing computing. And the fact that, you know, Knowing, no technology, having no computers, you know, even an upper until I even in higher education law school, we don't have computers. We don't have access to internet.
We just have books that we take turns to do, you know, from library. So the not having that background. And I talked about this, uh, last time when I was doing the science, um, keynote speaking two weeks ago. I, when I came to the U S I probably knew like Microsoft word and paint and not even Excel word, like I didn't [00:03:00] have any of like, the lack of that background and just the intimidation of it.
Like not having that experience, you know, like when I was attending those classes, cause I was immediately jumped into the main courses of the programming, HTML, you know, into that computer programming classes, not having the computing concepts, the math classes. A new country, new continent, just the dynamics of adjusting and navigating a new system in general.
Plus I was seven months pregnant with my second one. I had a toddler. Uh, it was just a new whole thing. So yeah, so, and we knew.
Jeremiah: can only imagine.
Zinet: Yeah, we knew no one. When we moved to Minnesota, the only reason we picked Minnesota, cause a lot of people asked us out of all the states, why did you pick Minnesota? And the reason was we, when we got that opportunity to come here, we only knew someone through my husband, who he knew from high school.
He hadn't spoken to her in a while and he just messaged her on Facebook messenger. And she said, yeah, you can come here, but I'm going back to [00:04:00] Ethiopia because she hasn't gotten back in eight. Since she came here through refugee system. And then, uh, so we, we D we didn't have an option. So we just came here.
She was able to guide us only for those four days. And then she left then me seven months pregnant, a toddler, and my husband jobless, you know, no snow. We don't know snow in, in, in our, in, in Ethiopia. It's a 13 months of sunshine, always. So, um, just that, that adjustment is I think, uh, what has been challenging and then just, you know, people talking about, like, I have a.
I have done this project. You hear people talking about, I have done this project in high school, and that was intimidating because what was I doing in high school? Like, we didn't have computers, we didn't have access to that. So, um, all of those things.
Bella: you mentioned earlier that like you knew that you wanted to get in technology and hearing about your background, you know, not being exposed at a young age to computers, to technology. What made you sure that this was a field that you were interest.
Zinet: Yeah, [00:05:00] so, I mean, I've always been fascinated by technology and like, ah, It's just not having the access, but I knew about technology, you know, uh, what it does, like how it can be used to help solve problems. Um, and there are like my husband's studied computer science in back in Ethiopia. That's where we made at the university.
Like I've seen him coding stuff, but, um, once you are in a certain field, you cannot change. Like that's how the system is set up. Like in high school, if you are. Uh, social sciences Strout, you can, there are only certain fields that you can be in. And I myself said multiple times self eliminated myself from, uh, math classes.
Cause I've always thought that I'm not good at math. So I've never navigated the route of natural sciences where when it's time to go to the universal. Um, you, you have a certain options to be in those spaces only, you know? So, um, yeah, but I mean, I knew about it, like, and then people talk about like, technology's huge in healthcare.
You know, healthcare is huge, um, coming here. So I have to do some [00:06:00] thinking, you know, when I decided that I'm going to restart and start from scratch, you know, from, uh, you know, in a new country,
Bella: I think it's funny that you say that you like limited yourself sort of, because you thought you weren't good at math or maybe not, you know, didn't want to pursue math. Uh, I loved math when I was younger, but I got to a point where I hated it and I studied computer science so that I would never have to do math again, incidentally.
Um, but so we talked a little bit about like the, the challenges, like I think, I can't even imagine. Like, I'm trying to put myself in this situation of having, it sounds like almost everything in your life was, was changing and you were just kinda going for it, like new, new living situation, new career field, like all of this, um, which is really impressive.
And I'm wondering, like, that sounds like a lot of challenge. What were things that kept you? Um, I kept you going, or that inspired you about the field, like positive [00:07:00] things that made, you know, like it's worth getting through all this.[00:08:00]
Zinet: Yeah, I think in the beginning, especially, you know, um, you know, before moving here, I will wait. I will also had an opportunity to, to pursue, uh, a grad program elsewhere scholarships. So when we got this opportunity, oh, we thought, you know, for our kids and for our growing family, it would be a good way. Uh, to go [00:09:00] there, um, because it's a once in a lifetime opportunity that you get, you know, diversity visa, that's how we got here.
Um, so it's just, you know, the endless opportunities, like what, what, what excuses do I have? I have the accesses and I have the opportunity, so why not? And then just, you know, being able to become a good role model for my kids. Um, and then just seeing that, you know, uh, just seeing a bright future, right. Um, at that point, you know, can be challenging.
You know, I had. My second child, which is my first daughter, um, right after, you know, um, we settled in and, you know, there were challenges because my husband had to work all day and then, you know, being able to, uh, at that point, I was just preparing myself to go back to school, you know, uh, watching a jealous toddler, which, which happens whenever another newborn is high in the house.
And when they find out that they're not leaving the house anymore, they just, they just get jealous. Um, this, you know, navigating that and just postpartum issues, just being alone, you know, coming from a community based [00:10:00] system and just being alone. Cause we knew them, no one, um, uh, there are a lot of challenges with those as well, but just, you know, seeing the bright future, like I've never at any point felt like, um, um, you know, I had to look back, but look in the future, look ahead and see, uh, what are the possibilities?
Like what, what could I do, you know, with me and the opportunity that I have. And I think that that mindset kept me going over.
Bella: Absolutely. And I know you've talked, you know, I, I've heard you speak about making this transition, um, and wanting to help others get into this space as well. Um, and you know, clearly you had the drive, you have the, the motivation, what are, what are some things I guess like beyond just sharing your perspective and your story here.
What are some pieces of advice that you've maybe given to others who are trying to do a similar transition?
Zinet: Um, I would say like, I would, I wouldn't say like, everybody go to cybersecurity, but like, if you have the passion and the need, like if you have the interest, like, I I've been fortunate enough to see that early [00:11:00] on. Like, even if it's the last year of my computer science degree, which, um, you know, sort of that competition that I mentioned, um, but you know, It's like, if you, if you believe in yourself and you, you can do it, like you do belong in this, in such spaces.
Like if you have that interest. And I think that's been the mantra that I have been, you know, saying all the time, like if you, if you, um, have the passion, you, you can do it too. Like if I can do it, you can do it. I have had a million excuses that I could, I could have been giving. Um, but that didn't limit me from making that trip.
Bella: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like sometimes just reminding yourself or even hearing someone else say like you belong here, like, if you're excited about this, you belong here. I think that's something that I I've kind of, uh, has been a mantra that I've come back to in my own journey in cybersecurity as well.
You know, just hearing you belong here, it kind of helps.
Jeremiah: I would agree with that too.
Zinet: And it's not [00:12:00] easy, right. Especially when it's like, when you are in a field that's continuously evolving, like to get hit by those feelings of like, oh my God, what am I doing here? I don't know what I'm doing. Um, I have, I always have those moments, you know? So, uh, it's always good to have that reminder.
Like there is a reason for me being here, you know, to
Jeremiah: There's a, there's a particular thing. I, I heard a mentor of mine speak about at once, uh, imposter syndrome and when he was giving that talk, I'm like, I feel that too. And then since then I've seen others sort of, uh, come out and say, you know, I feel imposter syndrome all the time being here. And, and, and it points back to your statement that you just made.
And I think it was it's, it's so simple yet eloquently stated. You know, if you feel happy in this space, you belong here. If you're excited by this space, you belong here. Sort of a thing. Um, switching gears just slightly, uh, for our listeners, I see in the background, there's, there's sort of two books that you've got, and I know that you've written a couple of books, one of them, uh, [00:13:00] or your first book is an award-winning, uh, book called proud in her, um, his job.
And, um, how did you, I was just kind of wondering, how did you get into writing children's books?
Zinet: Yeah, the pandemic I'll blame the pandemic, you know, in 20 20, 21, 20 21. I mean in 2020, we, you know, I have four kids, um, three different classes plus a baby. Um, you know, they completely transitioned suddenly to, you know, distance learning and we have to support them. Plus, you know, doing a full-time job on my head and my husband and myself working remotely.
And then we have a baby at that point in the beginning of the pandemic, he was four months. Now he's two. You're sold. I don't know how that happened, but who's counting time since the pandemic. Right. So, um, yeah, it was the book came about. Um, so I've never written anything. I've never been an author. It was just coming from, you know, how do I solve a problem?
You know, like, Write a book, you know, uh, 20, 21 March. I think it's going to be a year as soon that, you [00:14:00] know, I published the first book, like you mentioned, proud in her, he job, uh, it's a story of family, strength, identity, and empowerment. And, uh, it's coming out of, you know, the questions from my own kids, uh, having similar questions, you know, they're, they're bringing questions about their hair, braids, their hair, texture and types and their hijab.
Like, you know, when you are. Spending your days with diverse group of people like in school, depending on where you're going. Now, you get asked questions and usually they, they bring that to their parents. And I thought, you know, if this questions are asked here and probably. Also happening in another household.
So I thought let's teach ourselves how to self-publish and publish a book. So that's what I did. And I just started the reason why you helped on clubhouse app is to find rooms and, uh, uh, listening to how authors like publish a book. I don't know, whatever the writing, how do they make it a book, how to get an ISB.
So, um, the main message of the book is really to empower and uplift girls [00:15:00] who choose to wear hijab to be proud of themselves, their identities, and, you know, just to bring their whole selves as they are, because there are a lot of, you know, mainstream media, a lot of things going on in the media that are, you know, stereotypical things that are going on, you know?
So, uh, just to let them know, like I see you, that's literally in the dedication of the book and then to also create a. Leaders that, you know, a lot of these misconceptions are coming from not knowing. I truly believe that. So creating awareness, especially for children, right? Um, the importance of appreciating diversity and, uh, you know, the importance of appreciating other people's faith and cultural differences, all of those things, because it's a multi multicultural book because I have snippets of things from like the food Ethiopian food injera, the flatbread, um, it has description of the heat they eat..
Jeremiah: Which is delicious by the way. I've, I've had, I had my first Ethiopian food probably a year ago and someone took me there and I was like, I was, I was like, [00:16:00] this is great.
Zinet: Yeah, you can have it with any sauce, just not sugar. I always say that that should be stuff, but anything, anything, anything spicy? Well, a lot of the food service places. Beat vegetarian, but yeah, but it was the, there are a lot of messages attached to the book, but that's how it came about. And I was pleased, you know, that it became, you know, Amazon number one bestseller and won a couple of awards too.
Uh, but I just continued to get inspired by the messages I'm getting from the children and the parents and the reader loud events afterwards. It's just how the message resonates with them and that even adults like telling me that, oh, I've learned a lot of things from the book, even though it's a, a book for a six to 12 year old age group.
Bella: Congratulations, by the way. That's, it's really phenomenal.
Zinet: Thank you so much. Thank
Jeremiah: can you, can you also tell us about the second book that you wrote as well? Um, oh, no. Hacked again.
Zinet: [00:17:00] Yeah. And that, that one also, I also blame the kids now because they keep being the inspirations because when you have four kids, you never run out of inspirations. You know, during the pandemic, they were spending a lot of time, a lot more than what they are allowed to online and, you know, line gaming, um, chatting and stuff.
Um, so I've noticed more than, I think one occasion that. I think two of them accounts got hacked, uh, from those gaming experiences.
And so, um, it's really about teaching kids, the importance of online safety, password security and MFA, you know, like we, we. We don't notice when we give them tablets and access to the internet. We don't say that, you know, it's too early, but we always tend to think about, you know, teaching them about online safety and cybersecurity's too early.
So, um, I published it six months after the first one. And I looking back, I'm like, how did I do that? Because it's really difficult to do that. Like you have to recover from doing the first [00:18:00] one because I did it while learning. And a lot of challenges also because you have to have interaction with an illustrator, making sure that your story gets captured appropriately because they're picture books too, um, describing them and having that portrayed the way you want it to be.
Um, and then designer working with a professional editor and then just to be able to do the second one was like afterwards, like I, I felt I was burned out, but it's worth it because, um, it's really important. Like we have to teach. The importance of online safety and also, you know, sparking interest for young readers too.
So explore this field when they grow up like stem fields, cyber security in general, like to see that in as much as they're saying, I want to be a doctor, I want to be at my kids, want to be princesses. And sometimes artists, it depends, but my, or a soccer player, none of the doctors and engineer things have been mentioned in this house.
They just want to be, you know, drawers artists. Uh, but I've never seen anybody who says, like, I want to be a cyber secure. [00:19:00] Professional. I mean, you can see that it's newer. Like we don't even know what it is yet. We're figuring it out,
Jeremiah:, how do you, figure out which age you're going to kind of tailor the book for itself? Because I know like these kinds of concepts are hard for adults to grasp in some ways. Um, so, so how do you break it down for children to understand that.
Zinet: Yeah. So from the responses that I've gotten, like, they're like very simple. They can understand it, but for me, I don't know, maybe I am writing at, so all of the characters and the names are my kids. Like all of my four kids are the characters. They even, they physically, like, I literally sent two. Yeah. So even the names cause representation.
Right? Um, yeah. To seeing themselves in character-wise and also seeing their names like that has been very important to me. And so having that, so going back to a question, I got, I lost track of it talking about that, but, um, but it it's, it's, it's [00:20:00] dumb, so I know how they talk. I think seeing it from their perspective.
So the second book's main character is my. My second, um, kid it's calm. She's eight years old. She loves online gaming and she got hacked. Then how she navigated that? How to operate safely online. Um, So I know how they talk. I think it comes from being a mother to four kids maybe. And then also, um, there are, you know, you have to evolve like professional editors for the book, so that it's age appropriate.
And usually I didn't have those problems where, oh, this is what they would say. This is what they would say, you know, versus an adult. And then at the back of the book for both books, I have terms defined, for example, for the first book. He jabbed defined for people who don't know he job. There are people who struggling to even pronounce it.
Cause it's Arabic word. I understand. And then you did it. You did great by the way.
Jeremiah: Okay.
Zinet: And then, and then
Jeremiah: I practice before I was like, listen, y'all, I'm going to need a little bit of help here [00:21:00] because I sometimes don't pronounce things.
Zinet: Exactly. I know. I've heard people calling it hygiene and I had to send like an audio training from Google and the person always laughs and still manage to make a mistake, but we always laugh about it. But there are terms, for example, um, in the, in the second book, I try to define the term cyber security, internet wifi.
Uh, there is a glossary for cutlery at the back of it. I wish I could show you. Um, and then, you know, all of those things to, to make sure that, you know, as parents are having those conversations about multi-factor authentication because the books are meant to be conversation starters, and then to define, like, I don't even know like how to define that for a kid, but the definitions might still be difficult, but at least, you know, I try like what it means, what an internet is, what a wifi.
Six to 12 years of age. That's the age group. Cause that's I, and I, and I figured it, my, my, my experiment is from my kids because my kids are, when I wrote it six year old, I have an eight year old, I [00:22:00] have a 12 year old. So I have them like, read it and tell me, like, is this something a 12 year old? Like, and my son would say, yeah, totally, this is awesome.
You know? And then sometimes they would tell me most of the time they'll tell me it's lame. Like it's lame. We don't do such words. Like. It's it's cringey. That's. That's what they will use this cringy. They say cringy, like nobody says that mom don't like, and then I would stop, but they didn't have to do that a lot.
but I always try to make sure that I run it by professional editors because, um,It's for the kids, they deserve to see quality stuff, you know?
Bella: So one of the things that you mentioned earlier was like these kinds of conversations about cybersecurity, like, you know, where folks are giving their kids, you know, iPads and access to the internet, but not having the conversations about cybersecurity because, or at least partly because. We often feel like there, those concepts are too complex or, or, you know, whatever the reason for kids to understand.
But you know, like we just mentioned you, you mentioned your, your kids getting, getting hacked [00:23:00] on their online gaming. Like it is really important to have these conversations. How do we start to like change adults and parents minds about when the appropriate time is to have those conversations?
Zinet: Yeah. I think when, whenever they're happening to the internet, like that, the moment you are on the internet. Right. Uh, and then just having that mindset that, you know, we always tend to have this myth about, you know, online security is that we always tend to, to assume that what would a hacker get from me?
Like our data is isn't. Not valuable to anybody else, but that's not how it works. Um, anybody can be, you know, a target for, for, for those cyber attacks and kids are more vulnerable to, like I talked about, you know, possible online predators situation that might have happened, you know, like how to have that open communication with your parents, whenever those things happen.
And I think that's what the book is centered. [00:24:00] Always to go to your parents, go to an adult, someone that you trust to say that I'm having this issues. What do I do? Cause online predators, usually they like broken families and. Um, families who don't talk to their parents because they tend to say, cause I've seen that with, with my, in the stories that, you know, don't talk, I'm your big brother, I'm your friend.
Don't tell anybody. And then that's how they room and, you know, whatever inappropriate things that they're setting the stage for. But, um, Touched in the book as well, Now they're willing to learn versus let me teach you cybersecurity. Here we go. Chapter one, crypto, I didn't do that. It, it has to be something with a story that they can relate. And then seeing, oh my God, this happened to me as well.
Jeremiah: This particular story. Um, interestingly enough, so. Almost relevant for my particular grandparents. Funny enough. And I say that because, um, there's concepts that are difficult concepts, both I think for children to grasp. And then at [00:25:00] least from my grandparents, um, because I spend a lot of time with them. Um, my grandmother got her.
Uh, smartphone, uh, probably a year ago that I sent her. And, um, she's been spending a lot of time trying to understand it and understand the concept of what the internet is and, and how you can get on the Facebook and all of these sort of concepts around, but cybersecurity in general, um, is an interesting concept that, you know, that she just has no fathom about.
And so this seems like an interesting way to kind of introduce her to that.
Zinet: I mean just the general concepts and definitions to remain the same when it comes to security, like enable your MFA. Like, it seems so easy, but do we do it? No. Unless we see someone that we know get hacked and then, oh my God, me and they build that.
in the story, it talks about like the brother coming in and say, oh, by the way, enable MFA. And you know, the, the sister says, oh, what is that again? And then he'd say, I'll show you how to set it up, you know, [00:26:00] further protects your account.
And you know, like, even if you're, you know, the bad guys have your password, then you don't have to worry about, and then, you know, Yeah, I think it's really important.
Bella: Um, so I saw, I think on your LinkedIn, I saw that you're active with black girls in cyber. Um, and I wanted, I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about that organization, maybe how you're involved with them. Um, you know, just information about that kind of side of things.
Zinet: Yeah. I joined the organization as a volunteer last year, I think, end of last year. Um, it's a really great organization for, um, you know, advocating for, uh, diversity within cybersecurity privacy in stem fields. Um, I, I am in the board, like I said, I'm newer, but, um, in the board, so they have a lot of progress programs.
Um, To bringing, uh, cohorts [00:27:00] to train them in cyber security, privacy. Um, I am the co-director in branding and social media. Um, it's a really great organization for, you know, like finding your tribe and finding that confidence and training for people who are trying to break him into cyber secure. And just, you know, sometimes you just train and know a couple of things to do, but I think you needed that guidance and mentorship, and just seeing other people who are on the same boat, struggling to get into the field, or what might be the challenges specific to, for example, like, uh, you know, people of color or black women, like what are some of the things that they're facing?
And, and I think it's really important. Uh, so far it's been a great, uh, just volunteering and supporting the organization and it's really growing. Um, foster than expected.
Jeremiah: I think what we've seen based off of what you said, there's been a growing number of organizations that are now currently aimed at increasing diversity in cybersecurity and [00:28:00] technology in general. So organizations like, um, you know, girls who code. Uh, black girls code blacks in tech, et cetera. Um, I was wondering if you could share your particular opinion on why these organizations are important from a diversity person.
Zinet: Yeah, I think, you know, everybody's experiences are different, you know, my experience, uh, as a woman in, in cybersecurity and another person's experience might be different. So I think it's important to have that shared expense. Of being, you know, uh, what are some of the challenges being a black professional or a black woman professional within the industry?
Like how do I negotiate salary? And just being aware of those, um, like pay gaps and how to be, find that mentorship and support. And I think it depends like I'm a member of women in cybersecurity first. Um, I'm also a member of empower cybersecurity founded Tia, huh? You might know her. Um, and, [00:29:00] and I know that they do similar things, but they have also their niche programmings that they do in terms of like elevating that because, um, when it comes to, you know, the statistics of it too, like, there are like, Women.
We know that it's less diverse in, in the industry. There are less women up until recently. It was only 11% of women that identify as females. And now it grew up to 24%. And when it comes to black professionals and women and black women within the industry goes down the number. And I think if I'm not mistaken 9% or so, so, um, the experiences there might be shared experiences and there are experiences that are.
Specific to certain group of people. So like, uh, finding that support to each other and seeing that, you know, there are people who are in the industry that are willing to mentor and provide that guidance. And then, you know, seeing them like as a presentation, like missing TIAA or Talia, the founder of black girls in cyber or Mary, she's a woman in cyber Jyutsu, I think.
Uh, [00:30:00] Mary Galloway to seeing them just motivates me and tells me that, you know, I, I do also belong such spaces because I'm seeing those. And that was part of the book too. Like, uh, you know, I I've, I've indicated that I can be a cybersecurity professional. Cause after that problem was solved, she saw that her mom, a K a me was also inside with professionals.
So I have my, you know, illustrations in there just seeing that. I can be too, just like my mom, you know, she is a cool, you know, she's, it's a stock that she's in cybersecurity, you know? So those representations are very important.
Bella: Yeah. I remember the first time that I ever. Um, so I, I, I obviously work in cyber security. Uh, I identify as a woman and, you know, it's an, it's an experience like it is a specific experience. And I remember the first time that I went to like a women centered, um, conference, I went to the Grace Hopper conference and I remember just like looking around.
Like mostly women. [00:31:00] And it was like, I think it was the first moment in my career. I was like, oh, I really, really do belong here. Like, yeah, we're, we're good. Like I'm okay here. Um, and it's kind of, it's interesting. Like, I think sometimes it's easy to forget how important talking about that shared experiences, but it really is like, it is, it is really important.
Um, I guess what are, what are some of the, I know. You've talked about how, um, how it it's nice to get to. Increase representation. Talk about representation in, uh, tech and cybersecurity. And you're on the board at black girl and cyber. What are, um, what are ways that you know, me and the rest of us can, can help do some of that as well.
Like what are good ways to promote diversity, um, support other, you know, getting more women and black folks and other just [00:32:00] minorities into this.
Zinet: Yeah. And I think that the sheer, I don't know if, you know, share the, my can say we're, uh, by Camille started in Lawrence, zip break and Kaitlin, they, they, they have founded this movement, you know, share the, my concern. Right. Um, um, allies would promote, um, and also not only just promoting on that day, but also providing scholarship and all of those things that just support like genuine support, um, just being an advocate on their behalf and just vouching for them and speaking, whenever, you know, those people are not in that woman, just appreciating like the importance of it, having those diverse.
For those businesses to the benefit of the business. Cause, um, I think the business benefits more from having diverse teams with diverse perspectives coming from different spaces to solve the, you know, the, the, the cyber problem that we continue to face.
Bella: So speaking of getting more. [00:33:00] More women in this field getting, getting us into cybersecurity. Uh, I know that you work currently as a cloud cloud security engineer, is that correct? Um, can you tell us a little bit more about what that like what's, what's the day to day? What do you, what do you focus on? Um, what, what are you doing in your job currently?
Zinet: so, um, I joined six months ago, the organization of fortune 500, uh, best buy as a, an associate class security engineer. And I've never worked in, in, in cloud environments before. Um, and like I mentioned, you know, when I started my career started as an it auditor, then, you know, moved to a state government working as an information security engineer.
And that speeds. And then recently back, I mentioned six months ago, joined that there, and I'm still navigating and learning, you know, it's a huge organization, uh, still bookmarking stuff and not to get lost in a remote environment, but, uh, it's been an interesting, uh, thing. Uh, so, um, mainly our role is, you know, [00:34:00] I work in a cloud security engineering space, uh, to make sure that, you know, what secure looks like in the cloud, where the cloud operation teams and other people, you know, definitely collaborate.
Um, and making sure that, you know, in cloud, what what's, what security looks like in the cloud, in the process of that data migration from data center to the cloud, uh, preparation, those, um, you know, secure configuration guidelines, working with the architects and the engineers and developers, um, and setting those guidelines and making sure that we're detecting them and, um, providing those guidances in general.
And in a nutshell, that's what we're working on.
Jeremiah:I myself, I'm a former best buy employee, but I worked at one of the local stores. I was at geek squad, agent geek squad, uh, sorry. I had to shout, shout that mantra for saying, um, had a blast. Um, I thought it was a great organization to work for. They do a lot of things to help out the employees and, um, I really enjoyed my time there.So, um, really cool to hear that you're happy to be working for them.
Zinet: Yeah. Yeah. Initially. I wasn't even looking to get into cloud security. I was preparing myself getting, you know, AWS cloud practitioner and CCS K from cloud security.
Um, and then science also, GCLP the cloud security centrals. That was the newer one. Um, but you know, LinkedIn, sometimes can't lie. If you're present there, people will notice you and try to come and say like, maybe you need to change. It's like, come on over. And I was like, no, I'm good. I have four kids. I don't want any change.
I'm good. When probably it was also coming from like, I'm not ready. I'm not ready for, for, for that. But I took a bet and I, uh, you know, after Monday, So those conversations going on and me saying, no, I'm not ready. And then, uh, they're being persistent. I made the transition and I'm glad I did. It was a really great fit and learning a lot.
And I think that that was the whole point of it, you know, learning. Um, I'm also doing my grad school at Georgia tech,
Jeremiah: what's your [00:36:00] focus that you're working on at Georgia?
Zinet: Uh, initially I got accepted for, uh, information security track, but, um, after two or three courses, I thought, you know, cause they have policy track and uh, cyber infrastructure track. So I switched to a policy, but you, you take, you know, it's mandatory that you take courses from other parts it's supposed to be interdisciplinary.
So, uh, it's been helpful in getting, you know, Everything from there, but, um, so far it's going, well, three more courses to go to finish. Yeah.
Bella: It's interesting because it's, I think it's one of those things where like, um, you know, you talked about earlier, like getting into tech and cybersecurity and being surrounded by people that were like, oh, when I, when I did my high school project on this, whatever, and, and, and, you know, maybe there were things you couldn't relate to, but like, I love these kinds of stories where we end up in places.
I think oftentimes. You know, into our careers where we're like, wow, you know what? I have this very interesting background. Like I took this class or I had this previous career [00:37:00] that feels so unrelated, but. You know, those kinds of different perspectives can be so helpful and, and unique in, in this kind of study.
I just think it's maybe, I dunno, maybe, maybe this is just me, but I think it's interesting kind of coming back to like, you know, almost not quite full circle, but like some of those similar things.
Zinet: Yeah. Usually. Yeah. Usually though, like, uh, people, especially people coming like immigrants, um, I don't know, might be self-imposed like, we tend to assume that anything that we have back home is worthless. Like it doesn't like, cause people start from scratch or like not being able to continue their career as they have started back home that we co we, uh, I don't know me and a lot of the people in the community I've seen, like.
As a doctor and not being able to even coming with computer science degrees, not being able to find that employment here. Um, so it might be, self-imposed like I've kind of pushed it and never talked about it until recently [00:38:00] when I mentioned to people like people say, why you have a low degree? That's cool.
Now I started talking about it. So I think it does like, uh, help. Um, and there are a lot of things that you bringing in, uh, in terms of skills, transferable skills that might be pertinent to the cyber world.
Jeremiah: So kind of looking, um, in the future, um, with some of the things you're working on. If you want to share, you feel comfortable sharing. Um, do, do, do you have like kind of a path that you would like to go down? Like right now you're kind of focusing on policy, but what does the future hold for XenApp? Right.
Um, from a, from a trajectory perspective.
Zinet: Yeah. Uh, it's, it's hard and figuring it out day by day, but I, I, I don't know. I just. Be, you know, like I'm a valuable thought leader in the space and cyber security being able to advocate for like diversity and just bettering how the industry looks like. And. [00:39:00] Uh, being able to value to other people, like in terms of the cloud security, cybersecurity, those are like my areas of interest and policy too.
I was still having issues. Like, how do I tie like the policy with the, with this one, but there, there will be time. Um, and you mentioned it right. They're not disparate. Like they're not separate things like one supports and compliments. Um, another one and we tend to have like, okay, we have seven, two. Uh, domains within cybersecurity, like cybersecurity.
Isn't just one thing. Uh, but they're totally interdependent. Like I, um, started as an it auditor and moved to information security. Working on AppSec stuff. And now in cloud security. So a lot of the things, as I was transitioning from roles to roles, I tend to talk about relevant things that I've worked in the past that are relevant to the job description that I'm currently applying for this, making that connection and just talking about and saying, you know, security is all about enabling the business.
It's not one, it's not technology. Having those common grounds that applies to every role. [00:40:00] I think it ties it together. So I would say. Um, yeah, I work on my public speaking fears. I'm working on that consistently by just facing them because my mentor AGA Yon, he always says like the only way to get over that is just by doing public speaking, I would say, okay, let's do it.
And I just did. Yeah. I just did my first keynote speaking at science, uh, two weeks ago. It's been great. Uh, yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, as I was doing it, I feel like. Some of the things are falling off. Like it wasn't easy. Cause, um, back in Ethiopia or here, like I didn't have that, that mentorship.
Um, I didn't, I didn't know that as a concept, like until 2020, I didn't have a mentor. So that, that has been helpful that just knowing that, you know, you get better at it, the more you do it has been helpful. So, um, I always tend to think about whenever I get invited for podcasts or any place, especially after the books got out, you know, I get invited to places like.
Should I go or let me just pass it. [00:41:00] And then, you know, I just go back and say, that's the only way to get better. And then I, and I do it like it is voice rings in my head and I would just do it, you know?
Bella: Um, so I think, I think this is all of the, the questions that we had for you. Um, we have, we have one final, like not, not off topic, but a lighter note question to wrap things up, uh, which is the question that we ask all of our guests. Um, what is something that you're, if you're comfortable sharing something that we wouldn't know about you just from looking at like your LinkedIn or other online social media profile.
Zinet: Oh, okay.
Um, I would say like in, like in the. By the end of pandemic, like I know not independent, but at the beginning of the pandemic, 2020 that's when I was coming off my maternity leave. Um, so, um, you know, we're working from home. So I, as of then, and now I was able to lose about, I think, 50 pounds, just, you know, just [00:42:00] working from home and just losing the baby weight,
And it's, it's hard to lose baby weight. And especially if you're having 11, 11 pound babies, all four of them are loving. For no apparent reason, they just like to come off so huge. And then they just, they're, they're normal babies now they're just normal sized skinny babies, but I I'm, I'm just, I'm just proud that I was able to lose, um, the, just the, the mom weighed up.
Like I I'm at a weight where I was like pre-baby. So that was, um, consistent work, uh, and something I'm proud of. And I don't think I talked about it anywhere, so thank you for making me talk about it.
Jeremiah: that's amazing. Congratulations. Um, yeah
Zinet: Thank you.
Jeremiah: thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. I learned so much from this conversation and, um, uh, hopefully look forward to seeing more from you in the.